Curse

reaper with no name · Aug 17, 2009, 06:59 PM // 18:59

In my last thread for making primary dervishes useful, someone suggested a clever compromise that would allow primary dervishes to hit more targets with scythes (and thus give them an actual reason to be used over dervish secondaries, which at present kick their butts in every category) without nerfing secondary dervishes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Another compromise position could be to tie it to Scythe Mastery, but put a breakpoint at 13.

So, I propose that for the number of targets one can hit with a scythe should be 1 + 1 per 5 ranks of scythe mastery. In other words:

0 scythe mastery = 1 target
5 scythe mastery = 2 targets
10 scythe mastery = 3 targets
15 scythe mastery = 4 targets

This doesn't affect A/Ds or W/Ds or anyone else that uses a scythe (unless their scythe mastery is less than 10, which I imagine is rare) except the dervish, who will gain the potential to hit an extra target (though he'll have to burn a major rune on it at least; call it a balancing mechanism).

Now, before anyone says "OMG, OVERPOWERED!", let's keep in mind that hitting 3 targets with a scythe is hard enough to do; hitting 4 will be even harder. If they can pull it off, then they deserve to hit all 4.

A/Ds and W/Ds will still do more damage to the targets they hit, but the dervish will hit an additional target and therefore finally have a real reason to be used in general PvE over the competition.

EinherjarMx · Aug 17, 2009, 07:48 PM // 19:48

I like this idea, it would give dervishes an a little advantage over the other melee'ers

/signed

Arkantos · Aug 17, 2009, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Quote:

Now, before anyone says "OMG, OVERPOWERED!", let's keep in mind that hitting 3 targets with a scythe is hard enough to do; hitting 4 will be even harder. If they can pull it off, then they deserve to hit all 4.

It's quite easy to hit 4 foes if you know what you're doing.

Anyways, wouldn't mind seeing it [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]

Aljasha · Aug 17, 2009, 08:07 PM // 20:07

good idea, but i have to agree with arkantos.

/signed

IronSheik · Aug 17, 2009, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Make it 14 and I'll sign.

Tenebrae · Aug 17, 2009, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Pointless and useless , wont fix anything .
/notsigned

OutlawFMA · Aug 17, 2009, 08:53 PM // 20:53

I like this idea.

/signed.

drunk n angry · Aug 17, 2009, 08:53 PM // 20:53

/signed great idea to give my derv a purpose other then running past enemies saying haha cant touch me LOL.

majikmajikmajik · Aug 17, 2009, 09:16 PM // 21:16

doesnt whirlwind hit all adject foes?

The Juggernauot · Aug 17, 2009, 09:20 PM // 21:20

intresting idea.

Xsiriss · Aug 17, 2009, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Here we go again,just no.The only problem dervs face is energy management which mystcism fails at,their damage capabilities are fine.It's not an interesting new idea,it's only mildly better than the last one but this won't fix anything,enemies rarely bunch up enough in pve because aggro control/tanking does not work and in pvp no one will be stupid enough to bunch up,ever.

This is not how to fix the dervish class.

lateralus11235 · Aug 17, 2009, 09:32 PM // 21:32

/signed

very good idea

Killamus · Aug 17, 2009, 09:59 PM // 21:59

/notsigned.

Scythes are used more as energy management then actual damage. You'd kill off a good bit of farming builds by doing this.

Also, it wouldn't fix anything, as a dervish would have to pull a ton in order to get 4 hits, and by then any other team would have killed the monsters in question.

Zahr Dalsk · Aug 17, 2009, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Make it 14, not 15, because major runes are bad and you should feel bad for using them.

And perhaps widen the area around you at which enemies need to be (or make it randomly selected any ones adjacent to you, considering the scythe's whirling animation).

mathiastemplar · Aug 17, 2009, 10:59 PM // 22:59

/signed
But as other ppl said, make it 14 - no point in 15 since other classes can't go over 12 in pvp.

(PvE) edition could be
9 scythe mastery = 3 targets
10-12 scythe mastery = 4 targets
13 scythe mastery = 5 targets
*flame shield on*
14 scythe mastery = 6 targets
15 scythe mastery = 7 targets
16 scythe mastery = 8 targets
17 scythe mastery = 9 targets
and so forth..
Just showing my idea.. numbers could be changed ofc..

This would make dervs more desired in PvE teams/speed clears/
"high end pve" <-lolwut
idno

Link6590 · Aug 17, 2009, 11:47 PM // 23:47

Tied to mysticism instead, then /signed

IronSheik · Aug 18, 2009, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Link6590

Tied to mysticism instead, then /signed

Mysticism sucks, nty.

More than 3 targets won't necessarily be better, because having more than 3 stacked in a pug/H/H team is rare in itself, won't make dervs more wanted, just a little bonus for when you do play derv.

reaper with no name · Aug 18, 2009, 01:03 AM // 01:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Link6590

Tied to mysticism instead, then /signed

Tried that already. See the thread with almost the exact same name.

I made it 15 so that it would be nice and linear, but if everyone wants less, then here you go:

0 scythe mastery = 1 foe hit
4 scythe mastery = 2 foes hit
9 scythe mastery = 3 foes hit
14 scythe mastery = 4 foes hit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xsiriss

Here we go again,just no.The only problem dervs face is energy management which mystcism fails at,their damage capabilities are fine.It's not an interesting new idea,it's only mildly better than the last one but this won't fix anything,enemies rarely bunch up enough in pve because aggro control/tanking does not work and in pvp no one will be stupid enough to bunch up,ever.

This is not how to fix the dervish class.

There is a way for dervishes to have energy management rivaling that of scythe sins and scythe warriors. It's called Zealous Vow. But guess what? There's really nothing a zealous vow dervish can do that a W/D or A/D can't do as well or better. This is because they get critical strikes and strength.

Seriously, go do the math. Compare a dervish to a scythe warrior or scythe sin. You'll find that the dervish loses every time. So, no, their damage capabilities are not fine (relative to the competition, at least).

And PvP is a whole different game, buddy. This change is intended to fix dervishes in PvE. I have no idea whether dervishes suck in PvP or not, and even if they do, fixing that is outside the scope of this suggestion.

Zahr Dalsk · Aug 18, 2009, 02:49 AM // 02:49

You won't make a dervish worth taking by boosting his damage, because he'll either still deal less than an MS/DB Assassin, or be overpowered (because the MS/DB Assassin is already overpowered, has been since practically forever, and anything stronger than an overpowered build is an even more overpowered build).

Why the MS/DB Assassin is overpowered?

Imagine a spell that deals 80 armour ignoring damage per second, is area effect, and locks onto the target (enemies can't move out of the AoE, because they don't detect it as AoE and because the spell follows them), as well as partially holding enemy aggro. This spell has an unlimited duration. It costs a party slot and requires a bit of upkeep, but aside from the occasional healing and condition/hex removal, pretty much takes care of itself.

This is the MS/DB Assassin. Making damage classes obsolete since... I dunno, whenever that skill update was. Probably 2007-2008.

reaper with no name · Aug 18, 2009, 04:55 AM // 04:55

Yeah, but scythe users can do more damage to the targets they do hit. It's not much, but it is the only reason to use scythes.